We were
chatting in the kitchen, and Daskalos said, "Let me tell you
what every psychologist should know." He then started walking
toward the living room. I followed him and turned on a tape
recorder as he began. This was the last day of my visit.
Daskalos:
When we are coming to the world to live, we pass from the
supersubstance of mind, formless mind, and we get some of that
mind, formless but most powerful. ‘Tis the first material to
create what we call mental body. Lower vibrations of mind give
what we call the psychical body, and still more rare [dense?]
vibrations are giving us our material body. So everything is
mind. Matter is mind. It is only the rate of vibrations [that
are different]. But we are not mind. We use mind. Our ego or
soul, call it whatever you like, or spirit self, has the
characteristics of self-knowledge. These are the characteristics
of soul, [of] the Absolute Beingness, of God. Self-knowledge.
But to express that self-knowledge, we need mind. God to express
Himself created mind from Himself to express Himself. We find
two conditions, the static, which is the Absolute Beingness in
its self-abundance and what I will call the super wisdom motion
which expresses now the Absolute Beingness self-willingness to
express Himself. It is not desire [for expression]. It is a
divine state. It creates vibrations.
So we have the two states of
things: self-abundance and self expression. For the [purpose of]
self-expression is created mind in all the rates of vibration.
What are we as ego? We are God. As a soul, we are an expression.
So the ego self, passing through the Idea of Man, which is (in?)
the super wisdom of the Infinite, where are the World of Ideas,
becomes a soul. Which is the difference between the soul and the
ego spirit?
Bob:
In one sense there is no difference.
Daskalos:
There is a difference.
Bob:
The soul has the bodies, the three bodies.
Daskalos:
Yes, but before that. Which is the difference?
Bob:
The soul is human, and the ego spirit is before human.
Daskalos:
Why divide it in this way? I will tell you. I have the sun and
the light of the sun passing through space. Then, I open the
window, and the light passes through the window. The light
passing through the window, from the window, giving the form of
the window on the floor, is the soul. But the light from the
window to the floor and the light from the window to the sun is
the same. So the soul is the same with the ego spirit. But now,
it gets a form: the human existence, the human expression. So
the soul is giving the human form expression.
Bob:
Is the ego spirit what they used to call the over-soul?
Daskalos:
The over-self is the spirit ego.
Bob:
The ego spirit?
Daskalos:
The ego spirit is the over-self. Now what are the
characteristics of the over-self [that distinguish it] from the
self? Qualitative - no difference, quantitative, yes. So once
the soul dresses herself, let us say [it] like that, with mind
as mental body, it makes mind part of herself. So, mind in its
essence has the (over?) wisdom of God, of the Infinite. So we
see a man born with mental body, psychical body, and the
material body. Now, the self-consciousness of man using mind
creates images, idols, elementals. The sum total of the
elementals is our present-day personality. So, what is now our
present-day personality? What are the characteristics of these
elementals? The ability to impress, that is why we call it,
"impressive" ether, the ether [with which] we make
visualization. The characteristic is that whatever it draws, to
keep it. So that part of your mental body, the body of
experiences, has a kind of its own knowing, knowledge. This part
is in the present-day personality, but when I say present-day
personality I don’t mean only the etheric double of the material
body. I mean also the etheric double of the psychic body and the
etheric double of the mental body because the combination of
that is what I call present-day personality.
So that sum of human, now,
mind is the superconscious, the consciousness and the
subconsciousness. So there is only one mind. The same way we say
this building has the underground, the first floor and the upper
floor, but it is this building. What enriches the
subconsciousness? The consciousness. So anything we are aware of
and comes to our consciousness is taught in our subconsciousness.
And so we can draw from our subconsciousness any moment we like
memory, remembering, all those things which have been stored in
it. So, if we call an ocean consciousness, subconsciousness is
below the surface of the sea. So, the present day consciousness
[which] we have is one thousandth of our subconsciousness. So,
we as souls, as existences, as divers, can either swim on the
surface or dive in the bottom of the ocean. It is the same
water. It is the ocean. So it is one consciousness, whether I
call it subconsciousness, consciousness or superconsciousness.
Superconsciousness is when I know and I get impressions from
many places at the same time. This is the difference between
superconsciousness from consciousness. Subconsciousness, our
subconsciousness, has a kind of its own life, its own
consciousness, that’s what we call subconsciousness. I have one
coin with two sides. That’s mind. One is consciousness, and the
other is subconsciousness. But it is one coin only. Can I go
from one side to the other? Yes of course - through what I call
memory, remembering, or bringing to the surface from the bottom
of my existence old experiences. Now, subconsciousness is, I
would say the wisdom of the consciousness. Now, as long as we
live in our material world, and you say consciously, do we live
consciously or subconsciously consciously?
Bob:
Subconsciously consciously.
Daskalos:
How? You are a baby. I teach you how to walk. You didn’t know
how to walk. You had made (good?) endeavors to it. You learned
how to walk. So, in your waking consciousness, you walk
subconsciously. You understand what I mean? No need to pay
attention to every step you are making and how you are walking.
The subconsciousness comes to the consciousness and you walk.
The same thing in swimming. You learn to swim as you have
learned to swim. You swim subconsciously consciously. You are
conscious of swimming. But yet knowing to swim is from the
subconsciousness. So we can see that subconsciousness and
consciousness are linked together and influence the one the
other so whether you say subconsciousness or consciousness, it’s
the mind. It’s the essence, the energy and the characteristics
of the mind -- of our mental, psychic and material bodies.
So, every psychologist should
know this: what is the soul, what is mind, where is the mind,
wherefrom we get the mental images, the mental idols, those
(holy?) elementals. From the formless supersubstance. So, we
have defined now subconsciousness.
Bob:
Is this formless supersubstance ether?
Daskalos:
Ether is one on the characteristics of this supersubstance, it’s
mind. But even ether is mind, electricity is mind, the matter is
mind.
Bob:
How does a person go beyond mind?
Daskalos:
I tell you, when you advance, and in the course of time you
become master of the material body, master of the matter around
you, you control your emotions, your desires, your expressions
in life and you are master of them, through mind again, that
means through thinking, thinking means using the mind, and then
you become master of your thoughts, you can know what you are
thinking about, you can change thoughts, you can take decisions,
that means through better quality of the mind you can convert
lower vibrations of the mind, you find yourself that I am not
the emotions and I am not the mind, since I can change them, I
can use them, I can replace them. Who am I then?
Then you find yourself. You are
you, the ego, formless, yet most powerful. God un-manifested but
who can manifest Itself anytime He likes. So, now we find
certain qualities of our ego, which is will power, what people
use as will power is obstinacy and not will power, because will
power governs thought while obstinacy it is a colored, temporary
in time and space, will, colored by emotions.
So the psychologist must learn to
analyze everything, his thoughts, his expressions, his abilities
- how to think, and all that. Then he will find himself as a
soul in himself as an ego-spirit. When he finds that, he knows
who he is. This should be the aim of psychology.
Now, what is psychology today?
Psychology is just study certain behavior of man, take it as
cause when it isn’t cause, [when] it is an effect of other
causes, and by that start to know more effects. That means, the
present-day psychologist is not standing on solid ground. He
thinks he is doing it, yet he cannot have the effects as causes
for further effects. He should get in the root of the causes.
Bob:
And the root of the causes is?
Daskalos:
Knowing everything, what it is. Knowing the Absolute Beingness,
knowing yourself, knowing, knowing.
That is the (end?). Can we know easily all these things? Now,
life is a thousand-sided diamond. You can learn all the sides of
that diamond. So day and night you may study and yet, you’ll say
as the old Greek philosopher ( ), "One thing I know, that I know
nothing."
Well, I had a fellow [who saw
me]. He was studying for years and years. He said, "Look here,
you’re making me naked. What am I now? You took me off my body,
my emotions, my thoughts and I see a self you present me
formless, non-existing."
And I said, "Yes, but that’s you
and that’s you as God and powerful, who can take any form at
will. You took already form at will."
"No, no, no, I’m afraid of that
nothingness." [he said].
I said, "That is not nothingness.
It’s everything. But don’t make comparison with known things and
try to understand with three-dimensional things yourself. There
are rather deep waters to swim or [in which] to dive, yet we
have to dive boldly to find ourselves."
